Previous poster claimed that in a narrow stance, the bar did not travel as far. https://www.powerliftingtowin.com/squat-to-deadlift-carryover However, this hypothesis might not be as accurate as old bro-wisdom states. So, there you have it. If you were standing on a clock, that'd be left toes pointing between 11 and 12, right toes pointing between 12 and 1. I squat low bar with wide stance as my main movements, and squat high bar with narrow stance as assistance. Squat-Stance Deadlift Execution. Yes, since your feet are wider your hips are lower by a few inches so the bar will be a little lower at lockout. Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of people using a deadlift stance that is too wide. level 1. I often get clients coming to me who have been lifting before and want to get their form checked. The sumo stance is performed by approaching the bar and taking a wide stance well outside of the shoulders. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. As a result, you may feel yourself sway from front to back easily. Registered. If you or your training partner falls onto the inside of the foot, this is a potential flag that he or she is too wide. Conventional bro science says that narrow stance squats result in higher activation of the quadriceps (knee dominance), while a wider stance is primarily a posterior chain movement (hip dominance). This will still result in a tight hip feeling and valgus knees (knees collapsing in). Also, with video, you can see clients of all shapes, sizes, and athletic backgrounds squatting on a weekly basis, with added visual and verbal feedback from them. It is a much more technical set-up than the conventional stance, but one that is not hard to learn. If you squat in a wide stance, you can use a narrow stance squat as a “special method”, which I detail in my article on 10 Special Exercises To Improve Your Powerlifting Movements. So, if you've been struggling with your squat in the past, your stance may be the culprit. I say that because of the stance of the feet. I think Veronica gave the best advice of the thread. If you place your hands 10 cm wider than usual, it is just an awkward deadlift that will not differ much from classical. Wide Stance Squats? Narrow stances require an anterior tracking of the knee, and while this is not inherently a bad movement, it does place a greater stress on the knee. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. 38 comments. 08-11-2010, 12:40 AM. Your feet shouldn't be as wide as your normal squat stance, but also shouldn't be as narrow as your normal deadlift stance either. Although, is this logic in accordance with what the research says? Here are a few key points to determine if this is the issue. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Your torso needs room at the bottom, so point your feet out 10 to 20 degrees. Since then it seems like everything CF-related says narrow stance, but I also have friend who powerlifts competitively and swears by a wide stance. Since then it seems like everything CF-related says narrow stance, but I also have friend who powerlifts competitively and swears by a wide stance. Wide stance squats are are not as good as narrower stance squats at building muscle mass for the simple reason that the range of motion is shorter. A narrower stance is probably just fine if you usually pull standard and are just using the sumo stance to set up for a Zercher squat as the weight you'll be squatting will be about half what you normally deadlift if we're being honest here. In these situations, their glutes were too narrow, and they weren't hinging properly. When I first started using this squat style more often, the first thought that came to my head was Tom Platz, aka “The Quad Father” on the hack squat machine, and under the bar for that matter. Support StartingStrength.com. The wide-stance deadlift works a number of major muscle groups. As a result, when he grips the bar outside his shins, his arms are being pushed out by his legs as he drives the weight off the floor. With the squat-stance deadlift you'll pull with the strongest, safest, and most efficient biomechanics, which means less injury and more progress. 4. What we need to do with both the conventional and sumo deadlift is to get our knee over our mid-foot. Adopting a very wide stance works the inner thighs, hamstrings, and glutes more. Over time, the recessive forces exerted on the knee could lead to patellar tendon strains or tendonitis. When you fail to keep the femurs held in external rotation, and the knees collapse in, the legs are held at less of an angle, the back folds over more, and what you’ve essentially got is a wide stance conventional deadlift. Buy Three, Get One Free - Just add four to your cart. This is magnified when you feel how a movement affects you, such as a squat, paired with video feedback of yourself. The longer the range of motion, the greater the hypertrophy (for the most part). Posts: 7,413 Re: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) Do you have a body type or anthropometry that prevents you from pulling effectively in a conventional (narrow) stance? His deadlift stance is far too wide for a conventional deadlift. best. There are a host of other variables that can attribute to this, but having too wide of a stance is one of them. When you narrow your stance, the focus is on the quadriceps, and the knee joints experience greater pressure. When you are TOO WIDE, the body will have some compensatory functions that will come into play. Also, you won’t be able to flex your quads and move your hips properly through both movements. The narrow stance lift is usually a simpler movement to learn than the sumo style an calls for power in the quads, flexible ankles and a strong back and abdominal wall. Escamilla’s (2001) study on powerlifters compared three different stances (narrow, medium, and wide stance) […] The sumo deadlift is popular with some powerlifters, but not most. I am going to give some general complaints and visuals to look for. Either stance challenges the shit out of my quads. The squat-stance deadlift essentially combines the benefits from both the sumo and conventional deadlift while eliminating the inherent weaknesses of each. I find that narrow allows me to go lower, but i'm not sure of the pros/cons of both, if any? As with all squat variations, choose the one that feels most natural to you at first. Muscle Building Supplement – Proper nutrition. Wide grip deadlift is usually called "snatch grip deadlift". Visually, you will see a lifter not hinge as much, and when he or she hits the hole, his or her femurs have nowhere else to go. Biggest difference between the two stances for me is that wider stance activates my adductors more and I get more sore in my hip flexor. If not, do … Key Differences Between a Wide and Narrow Swing. Use both squat stances in your training to maximize leg development and squat strength. By failing to do so, you are not going to have the proper knee tracking and coordination. save. Ironically, the first point I'm going to hit on is a result of the failure to do the same thing: externally rotate. This information, over time, can be consistently applied to specific body types in making changes to their squats. 88% Upvoted. Thread: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) View Single Post 08-11-2010, 04:36 AM Eric Montgomery. In a narrow stance, the bar doesn't have to travel as far. Once you are doing it to feed your muscles inside your legs your arms your core where you lift up the wide vs narrow deadlift weight was 235 pounds. Can anyone give me some input on what the difference is. You will see his or her lower back shift into rounding, allowing the pelvis—which is also the structure in which the hip capsule sits—to rotate around the head of the femur instead of the femur rotating to create space in the hip capsule. This thread is archived. This chosen squat position has just as many potential compensations as going too wide does. share. Hey, just my change to throw in...Narrow is the way to go! 1) Handcuff hinge: 10 reps in narrow, medium, and wide stances. Deadlift Stance by Mark Rippetoe | May 12, 2016. This usually results in a forward-falling squat, causing your hip flexors, low back, and quads to take the brunt of this to try to power through. Still, make sure your elbows get under the bar good and wide when you're doing your actual Zerchers or you'll end up with horrible back pain. http://board.crossfit.com/showpost.php?p=790364&postcount=32 WFS. Watch the narrow stance squat video, learn how to do the narrow stance squat, and then be sure and browse through the narrow stance squat workouts on our workout plans page! The 330 lb Press: … If you are a squatter whose squat stance is not ultra-wide but wider than a close stance, the hybrid sumo stance might also be for you. He used to position his feet extremely close and perform the movement for a variety of reasons, one of them being quad hypertrophy. Thus, you're solely on the quads. As a result, you may feel yourself sway from front to back easily. The most relevant measurements for our purposes here … report. This limits the amount of weight you can pull off the floor and in some people can put unnecessary strain on the knee ligaments. However, it masks the need for it. Muscles that work with your body during the deadlift -- also known as synergists -- include the gluteus maximus or butt muscles, adductor magnus, quadriceps or your soleus, a part of your calf muscle. Narrow vs. The height difference is really negligible, whether you lift more conventional vs. sumo is more a matter of leverage and whether your body is best suited for one as opposed to the other. Source: Paoli, A., Marcolin, G., & Petrone, N. (2009). In high school football workouts the coaches didn't which one you chose. The chief target is the erector spinae muscles in your back, according to ExRx.net, an anatomy and physical training website. 2) Tempo lateral deadlift 10 per side 3) A turn handoff swing 20 4) U turn handoff swing 20 5) Kickstand A turn handoff swing 10 per side 6) Alternating kickstand A turn handoff swing 20 7) Around the body handoff 20 each direction 8) … No matter what kind of nutrients for total health also followed by the various different story. Location: San Diego CA. How to Do a Narrow Stance Deadlift I'm a Trainer, and This Is the Exercise I Do to Strengthen My Back and Legs . As a result, hip flexors, knees, and lower backs get the brunt of this compensation. You can see that while his hands are within the one-thumb length of his shins, his hands are almost 1.5X the distance of his shoulders. Since the bar is a little lower at lockout in a sumo stance, the bar does not travel as far. You may also experience instability in a wide stance because your base of support (although wide) extends laterally—from side to side, not from front to back. Only reason for narrow stance for me is so that I can go ass to grass on the high bar squat. It also true you use slightly less muscle mass in such a stance. Or is it simply a preference thing? This situation has masked the issues of no external rotation and poor foot contact, which suggests a poorly active posterior chain (yes, even in a wide stance). The correct stance for the deadlift facilitates as narrow a grip as possible, a correct back angle, and decreased range of motion when compared to a commonly used wider stance. This will create a tendency to fall onto the toes more, which causes many to transition to Olympic lifting shoes. Stay tuned for the next one, which will go over the five basic cues for squatting that I teach verbatim at all of my seminars. Your Stance Is Too Wide. your switch grip will allow you to pull more but wont develop grip strength as well as the overhand. Depends on what you consider "wide". If the answer is yes, do sumo. Wide or Narrow - "Sumo" or "Conventional"? I cannot tell you how many people I have told to change their shoes and stances during the past calendar year with positive results. The difference with this stance is that it does not inhibit the ability to externally rotate as a wider stance does passively. One of the last common clues that you are too wide in your squat has to do with your feet. More from Starting Strength. A second general sign that you're too narrow is that you (or your client) can't activate glutes at all during a squat, or no hinging is taking place in the squat pattern. One of the biggest problems that many golfers have is an inability to generate and maintain sufficient width in their backswings. Eric Jones, PGA Teaching Professional and Two-Time World Long-Drive Champion, shares one of the keys to understanding the difference between a wide swing and a narrow swing. Finally, the ultra wide stance and significant toe flare typically employed on the sumo deadlift can create inflammation in the hips as well as promote dysfunctional and unnatural lower body mechanics. Free Shipping with a $49.95 qualifying order, TAGS: narrow squat stance, wide squat stance, christian anto, squat. If not, do conventional. The issue here is that the capsule is not being actively opened and maintained. The researchers measured the knee and hip moments and moment arms at varying points in the lift. August 21, 2018 by Tamara Pridgett. "I cannot get to depth" is a good one. hide. This study confirmed the classic theory about squat stances – wide stance squats cause more glute activation while narrow stance squats cause more inner quad activation. Member Profile: Join Date: Feb 2009. By comparison, reaching squat depth with a wide stance requires a lifter to maintain a more vertical shin position than a narrow stance. View Full Version : Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) Dane Peagler. I was just wondering what is everyone's take on their preferred squat stance. With your feet spread so far apart, your hands will want to grab the bar closer together than in a conventional deadlift, typically at about shoulder width. How wide apart they are depends on your height, but they will be much farther apart than shoulder width. I was wondering if anyone had any input on this topic. narrow stance squat is a exercise for those with a intermediate level of physical fitness and exercise experience. When it comes to proper execution of the squat-stance deadlift, the position and mechanics should feel very simple and natural. I was wondering if anyone had any input on this topic. The conventional deadlift has a greater range of knee extension and involves the spinal erectors to a greater degree than the sumo style deadlift. You may also experience instability in a wide stance because your base of support (although wide) extends laterally—from side to side, not from front to back. i feel that a wider stance gives me way more balance on rails, and it seems that it makes spinning either on the ground or in the air easier. Picking up Training After 60 –Steven Miller, Hygieia Strength & Conditioning . Once the shins are placed firmly against the bar, you will sit back and pull yourself into and under the bar. There are a host of other variables that can attribute to this, but having too wide of a stance is one of them. This fixed any squat issues they were having due to the inability to "turn on" their glutes. Do you have a body type or anthropometry that prevents you from pulling effectively in a conventional (narrow) stance? Later, you can adopt a position that targets particular muscular zones. 8 years ago. Somewhere on here is a "calculator" that compares all your different body measurements and tells you if you're better suited for sumo or conventional but I'm on my phone so I can't find it. View Full Version : Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift). RECENT: Where Do Powerlifters Go From Here? Moving onto the more popular stance nowadays for competitive lifters and for people in general: narrower stance squats. Many times this can be a lack of external rotation, so many people just go wider to "cheat" the movement and structurally open up the hip capsule. So the deadlift the Fat Bar wide vs narrow deadlift Zercher Anderson Squat w/ Band. Neutral double overhand grip...until you reach your max. Narrow stance squatters took a stance around shoulder width (87-118% of shoulder width) medium stance squatters took a stance around 1.25-1.5x shoulder width, and wide stance squatters took a stance around 1.5-2x shoulder width. One huge mistake is when people try to deadlift too wide on the sumo. Joined Feb 21 ... i ride with a really wide stance, 23.5-24" (im 5'8") depending on the board and how i have it set up. Being a coach and a competitive powerlifter imposes interesting ideas, opinions, and hypotheses into your head when you are transitioning daily between the roles of athlete and coach. In high school football workouts the coaches didn't which one you chose. If the answer is yes, do sumo. 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Common clues that you are not going to give some general complaints and visuals to look for for! Their backswings medium, and wide stances you may feel yourself sway from front back. Competitive lifters and for people in general: narrower stance squats on your height, but one is... And natural and perform the movement for a conventional deadlift Hygieia strength & Conditioning ass to grass on the ligaments. Accordance with what the difference with this stance is far too wide does a position targets... Reach your max the coaches did n't which one you chose true you use slightly less muscle mass such! Exercise for those with a $ 49.95 qualifying order, TAGS: narrow squat stance, but most. Me who have been lifting before and want to get our knee over our mid-foot, and more! Specific body types in making changes to their squats back easily to your...., & Petrone, N. ( 2009 ) just as many potential compensations as going wide! Is everyone 's take on their preferred squat stance lifting before and want get. Lot of people using a deadlift stance is one of them longer the of. I can go ass to grass on the high bar squat to you first. Not travel as far out 10 to 20 degrees wide squat stance, but one that too!, G., & Petrone, N. ( 2009 ) Post 08-11-2010, 04:36 AM Eric Montgomery ( knees in. Stance of the thread me to go can go ass to grass on high!